-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight on "the axe files," chicago mayor rahm emanuel discusses how democrats should take on the trump administration. >> mueller will deal with trump. you have an entire government that is not on its game, protecting the american people. the house should focus there. >> the biggest challenges of leading the windy city. >> you go a few miles out and you've got a war going on. why is chicago so subject to violence? >> and the emanuel family values

that have stuck with him throughout his career. >> you were expected to exceed, excel, make your mark in life, but you could not bring shame to the family by having failed. >> that's a lot of pressure. >> you're telling me. i'm still dealing with this. >> welcome to "the axe files." >> mayor rahm emanuel, my old friend, good to be with you here in the world's greatest city, city you've led for the last eight years. lot to talk about there, but first, i got to ask you to put on your other hats. the midterm elections, you were the last guy who was an architect of a democratic takeover in 2006. you won 30 seats. democrats won 40 seats this year with a very difficult map, and a good economy. so, why did democrats prosper this year? >> well, first, the last point is really a significant point. the economy. it is a wave election. the fact is, with 3.7%, 3.8%

unemployment, democrats had no business taking not only 40 seats, the second most since watergate. this is really significant and what happened was all the voters that i would call anti-hillary voters but not pro-trump, left donald trump, mainly in the suburbs, and came to the democratic party, and you created, i think, a unique opportunity not just to have voters that walked away from donald trump and into our arms. our goal now must be to put our arms around them. on the other hand, what's probably more significant is if you look at the gubernatorial races in the upper midwest, wisconsin, michigan, minnesota, pennsylvania, you see actually democrats also not only doing well on urban and suburban but actually minimizing their losses in the kind of cities of 150,000 or less. and that, to me, deserves much more unwrapping and understanding, and i would almost say 90% of that, showing up and saying, we appreciate your life.

we don't look down on it. and we appreciate your kids' future, it counts, not just in the urban centers, and we have to actually speak to that. >> but the shift in the suburbs, which was profound, is this a permanent shift? every election talks realignment. >> i don't -- nothing is permanent in politics. i think it's a unique opportunity for us. i think what's happened is the voters are clearly in the suburban areas, turned off by donald trump. if we do what we're supposed to do on minimum wage, if we do what we're supposed to do on prescription drugs and other healthcare costs, if we do what we're supposed to do on transportation, easing people's commute, et cetera, we can actually create a bind between urban and suburban and what we do between 2018 and 2020 will either say this was a unique opportunity, we seized, or we frittered it away and we actually didn't make it, and so nothing's permanent, but i think if the republican party stays as angry as donald trump, as ugly as donald trump, i think that's a unique opportunity for the

democrats to actually open up and build a stronger, more stable coalition that not only wins gubernatorial races and house races but the ultimate prize, the white house. >> you said 2020 is everything. what would it mean to the country, in your view, if he were to be reelected? >> here's the thing. i think he is very damaging to america. i don't agree with his policies. eight years in control of the white house and the apparatus of government would actually atrophy -- not just atrophy but actually do serious damage to the capacity of america to meet challenges at home and abroad. eight years of this would be something i'm not sure how long it would take for america to recuperate and recover from. >> you mentioned nancy pelosi before. you're very close to her. you helped make her the speaker of the house back in 2006. why is she such a lightning rod? >> nobody who's effective or a leader is 100%. they're going to have -- they, by nature, have forces that are

both real strong for and real strong against. that's what makes a leader. that gives democrats an aiser, - advantage -- not an advantage but eliminates the republican advantage. she is an incredible strategist, tacticianer, inside a caucus. one illustration to you, david, you know this, when we passed president obama's healthcare bill, she got, you know, there's institutional hatred between the house and senate. the fact is, she got the house caucus to adopt, basically, the republican -- the democrats' healthcare bill. >> and they didn't want to. >> that would be a bone in your throat, the idea that you wouldn't go to conference on a major policy. so that tells -- and she did it because she could keep her eye on the prize. >> it would have been impossible to redo the bill in the senate. democrats had lost their -- >> she basically -- so what did she do? replay the tape. attacks it, attacks it, attacks it to prove her bona fides to

the caucus, this is what we're going to do, and she ends up passing the bill that she said has got to be changed. very smart. very capable of showing her left that she had to do that. i think if you looked down the deficit side, the two big claims that are out there, one is, she's been there so long and it's time for a new, fresh face at leadership and at capacity. the second item is that her inside strengths don't come across on the outside game. >> a bunch of democrats running in these contested districts promised not to vote for her. what would you advise them as someone who -- >> first of all, if i was giving advice, i wouldn't do it on this show, because that's a -- >> but this is a convenient, and, i think, efficient way to do it. i mean, don't they have a problem? >> well, let me say one thing. this is one way to interpret the election, not the, a. the republicans are trying to make nancy pelosi an issue. we made the issues the issue on healthcare costs, education. the republican argument didn't

work because we won more seats than any other time since watergate. the challenge she has to figure out and this is where her legislative skills is, if you made a pledge, you don't want people to have the first vote you cast is to go back on that pledge and there's got to be tactical way she -- >> and she's awfully good at that. >> and i think that you got to get some concessions about change. i think the house rules should be updated. there's got to be a more openness, a more transparency. >> part of the impatience, and if you -- i can only imagine what you would be saying if you were -- >> impatience is not one of my strong suits. >> it is not and you were the number four ranking democrat in the house when you left in 2008, where ten years later, the same three leaders are the leaders. they're all in their upper 70s and the complaint we need some upward mobility here. >> that can be done at committee chairs. that could be done at a lot of different levels. one of the things, maybe, there

should be term limits for committee chairmen. >> the house democrats, the majority now, face a choice or at least they face a challenge in that there is a lot of energy for oversight that hasn't -- we haven't seen a lot of in the last couple years but there's also an opportunity for overkill. how do they navigate that? >> don't focus immediately on trump. focus immediately -- you have something with a secretary of labor. you have, with epa. you have interior department. you have it at the commerce department. you have it at h.u.d. he has brought the swamp to washington, and flooded the plains and i think mueller will deal with trump. >> and he's begun to turn over his cards. >> that's right. you don't have to go and lead mueller. you need mueller to lead. you have an entire government that is not on its game, protecting the american people. the house should focus there. now, and that -- >> what about the things that

people voted on, the things you mentioned earlier on healthcare and these other issues in >> david, look at what they're doing to the epa and the environment. if you wanted to communicate to urban and suburban voters the relationship and the literally cahoots between both the polluters and the departments, people that came out of these very polluters are writing the laws to ease up on them. to me, i would just go into the interior department and the epa and literally watch wholesale what people believe happens in republican administrations and that, to me, is worthy of oversight. i would also do it in the financial area. i think -- and i basically, the entire oversight or division between the public and private sector has been blurred. you can't tell the difference between some of these agencies and the very companies and industries that are doing some real damage. >> what if mueller lays his report on the table and it's a damning report? >> if mueller lays it down, that's different. before he lays it down, you also got to walk and chew gum.

there's an entire element where the blurring between industry and government agencies is not -- is -- there is no line. they have become one and the same and the american people are paying for it. >> presumably he's going to try and run against the house majority. >> not presumably. you know what he's going to do. >> and make them a foil in this election. looking to 2020, are you worried that the democratic party will, in the fight for the nomination, turn too illogical, too focused on trump? >> well, he is the factor. i mean, there's just no getting away from it. i think i would both on substance but as equally valuable on style, and i don't mean style in a bad way. a narrative and character. i would actually look for very clear contrasting points with the president. i actually think, david, the american people are exhausted. and more than exhausted, they're embarrassed, they're ashamed,

and it's enough. you look at president clinton, president bush, president obama, three eight-year presidencies. the last time that happened was jefferson, madison, monroe. we're due for a one-termer. my view on this is to focus and look at where do you have both substantive and stylistic and i actually think to his disunity, we offer unity. to his abrasiveness, we offer a more gentle -- doesn't mean you play gentle politics. but you make sure -- >> you've never been an exponent of that. >> nor have you, so let's be clear. i actually think the american people know that the country and its leadership are off on a dirt path and they want to get it back. >> so, you know a lot of the people whose names are being bandied about. you can't beat someone with no one. s so, handicap this for me. a guy hinting, said he'd be the

most qualified candidate and that's the guy that you and i worked with in the white house, vice president joe biden. >> i have a different premise, trying to look for history to draw lessons. jimmy carter, bill clinton, barack obama, all younger than the age of 50, all from outside of washington. and obviously, president obama was a senator, but he barely unpacked his suitcase before he started running. all of them -- two of them, governors of southern states. my general rule is that has -- that has worked for us. the last thing i think we need is a nominee who owns washington. if you've stayed there longer than two weeks, i don't think that's our place. it's not only worked not for us historically. my attitude is, who brings a fresh face, an energy that contrasts best with donald trump? >> let me ask you, though, because you describe an outsider, someone under 50, someone from the south and you just put a big foot on the butt

of beto o'rourke a couple of days ago, and you said he was -- you called him a loser and you said we don't usually advance losers and that created a big stir, because the guy did better in texas than anybody has in 20 years, democrat, raised $70 million, became a national figure. >> okay. what i said was -- can we look at what we're communicating. i'm a great admirer of what he did and what he did in that area and not only fund-raising but also on his vote. my point was about the party. what party takes a person who led the party to the greatest wins in the house since watergate and say we're going to cut your knees off and then says, we want to nominate somebody who didn't win. it wasn't about him. i admire what he did. it's about our party that i don't admire. >> i don't know who should be the nominee of the democratic party. in tone and tenor, he presented a great counterpoint and that's

why he did well and it seems to me that the party needs a primary to determine who the nominee should be. >> did i say anywhere that we shouldn't have a primary? wait a second. what kind of question -- of course we're going to have a primary and i said he should run and put his name forward. >> announcer: coming up on "the axe files." >> 4,000 people murdered since you became mayor, 19,000 wounded. how painful is that? aaaaaahhhhhhhh!

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with an unlimited plan, for just $40 bucks a month. unlimited. with the new iphone xr?! yeah! iphone xr included. for $40 bucks?! that is big. you've been, as we've mentioned, you were the number four ranking member of the house. you've been counselor to one president, chief of staff to another, but the job that you say you love the best was the one you have now and the one you're giving up which is mayor of the city of chicago. why? >> well, first of all, i love the job because i love the people and i love the city. i love this job because you can make a difference in people's

lives and also know it. >> you spent most of your life in washington. your public life. this is different from washington, being the mayor of a city. >> congress -- i slightly disagree, david, at least in congress i considered myself part of chicago. i worked in washington for part of it, worked here for part of it. i think today cities are emerging in a way as an economic intellectual cultural entity economy and chicago mayor, you can put your thumb on the scale and tip things. give you one illustration. i've added full day kindergarten for every child. didn't exist before. i've added full day pre-k for every child in the city of chicago. didn't exist before. we've added an hour and a half to every day and four weekens every year. to me, that makes a trajectory difference. we now match the united states, even though 83% of the kids are from poverty or below in this

public school system, 44% of our kids go to college. that's the same for the united states as a whole. another 22% go to community college. that's the same. and our demographics are slightly more challenging. to me, and that wasn't true eight years ago, and that, to me, is why public life is -- not just public life but specifically being mayor, you can actually do something, see it, feel it, and i took the train into work today. you can hear the good, the bad, the ugly from constituents, which is -- >> hard to get away when you're the mayor. >> you don't want to get away. there are things -- today i'm going to do an announcement and a speech about how to encourage men of color to become school principals because i actually think, for young men of color walking through the halls of school and seeing a young man who is the principal can actually be a very influential -- and we know that from research. >> you also do some things. you shut 50 schools down at the beginning of your administration because the schools had a fiscal

crisis. >> and also were failing academically. >> and that was a hugely controversial decision. >> yes, it was. i have extended the school day and the year, added years that never were provided for, and we took 49 schools that were not performing and underenrolled and continue to lose people and actually got every child, as the university of chicago said, to a better performing school and doing better academically and our graduation rate has gone from 56% to 78%. to me -- >> let's stipulate that. let's stipulate that you've transformed the community colleges, headquarters have come back. yet, as we sit here in downtown chicago, you go a few miles out and you've got a war going on, gun violence that has become a national symbol. why is chicago so subject to violence? >> one, easy access to guns. we're on a two-year record high

seize in guns but there's no stopping to it. we have, unlike new york or l.a., we don't have connecticut and new jersey gun laws. we have gun laws that are reflective of wisconsin and indiana. you and i want to get in a car and drive 20 minutes, i can get you anything you want. 60% of the guns we seize here in the city come from outside illinois. second is, we have lighter sentences for gun crimes than new york. they have a three year minimum. we have a one year minimum. so -- and then we have a different more entrenched gang culture. now, it is a reflection of parts of the city, not the whole city, but it is a challenge for the whole city. now, the good news is, the superintendent and the police department, with community leaders, are now on a two-year significant decline in both shootings and homicides. we have a spasm like other cities in 2016 that we're getting our hands around and making progress on. >> 4,000 people murdered since you became mayor, 19,000

wounded. you've recited a lot of things that you're proud of and accomplishments. how painful is that? >> i think you -- you know as a friend how painful that is. i always call and visit families who have kids affected. and i'm -- it's not the numbers. it's any individual and i want no parent to feel alone, and i do it more not as a mayor but i do it as a father of three. i couldn't get out of bed. if anything happened to my three kids. and i regularly check in on mothers and grandmothers so they don't think that they're alone in the loneliest moment of their time. the first call i do every morning. the first data i check is -- and talk to is the first deputy of the police department to see what's happened. now the good news is, we're making some progress. the problem is, it's a challenge

of guns. >> is it just guns? >> no. but that's a big piece of it. you, david, you have too many guns, too little values, you have a bad combination. and we have to deal with some issues that relate to values, the -- the sense that kids are lost, and when i say values, we had a situation three years ago where a young girl, 13 years old, shot another young girl. her uncle, who was a victim of gun violence, got on a bus in a wheelchair, go to get a gun, brings it back, gives it to the 13-year-old. all in a wheelchair, and he himself is a victim of gun violence. gives it to the 13-year-old. it locks. he unlocks it and she shoots the other 13-year-old. it is both the access to that gun and it's the lack of values and i also think -- >> you seem to be blaming the families of these -- >> that's not what i'm saying, and you know that, david. i think there's economics that are a factor. i think there's a lack of accountability in the criminal justice system. i think there's a whole host of factors.

and that is, i actually wholesale reject what you just said and you know that. and so what i would say is that there's a lot of things that deal with it, and you have to deal with all of them, not some of them. >> laquan mcdonald is a name that will be part of your legacy, the young man who was killed. the officer who shot him was just convicted of second-degree murder. there was controversy then because the tape that is now famous and the world has seen remained a secret for about a year or so. do you look back and say, gee, i wish i had gotten that tape out? >> well, you know there was a process in place, like for every city, and you've seen this in other cities where there was a process to have those videos. obviously, so nobody was changing their story for that. when i look at it, i actually look at it from the inspiration

of how we are going to make changes, given our history as a city. there's been in the hundred years, seven attempts to make changes to the police department. i am convinced that the road we're on now is the one that will actually put this to bed and make the fundamental changes. one-third of the rank and file of the police department today, one-third, are -- have come into the police department with the changes the superintendent and i have already made and i think every day that only increases in the sense that they know the world of today, and those are ones with fundamental reforms in place and will soon have a consent decree. >> you mentioned the consent decree. you struck a consent decree with the state attorney general to reform the police department. the trump administration has been pretty outspoken about rejecting such agreements. and the president himself has made chicago a talking point. >> what the hell is going on in chicago?

better tell that mayor to get tough because it's not working, what they're doing. >> why do you think that is? >> well, he's done that with philadelphia and atlanta but nothing like he's tone in chicago because he's -- >> because of you? >> well, there's a bit of me and because i've actually punched him in the nose and he thinks that if he can try to bully people. and that's not going to be different. i've said and i've declared that chicago will be a trump-free zone and i stand by that because i think the policies that he's advocated are quite divisive. i think he also tries to do it for trying to play to, quote, unquote, his political base and use chicago as a shorthand and i reject that as well. >> announcer: up next on "the axe files" -- >> you refuse to leave the chief of staff said you're fired and you -- >> let me say this. if anybody had done to me what i did to the chief of staff then, i would have fired them. ♪ ♪

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you worked for two presidents in separate periods in your life. the first time you arrived there, you were a, i would say, a brash young political director. there's a picture over my shoulder of you scowling as a young man at the white house. and within six months, you got thrown out of that job, largely at the instance of the then first lady, hillary clinton. >> one of the things i admire both about president clinton and president obama is they never had a problem if i walked in the oval office, or anybody for that matter, i probably abused it too much, telling them what i thought. and being honest and forthright. i learned a lot. when i almost got fired, i learned -- i think i learned who

counted in my life, who were real friends. i also learned how to pick myself up and dust myself off and not give in and give up. >> well, i think i advised you to come home and you didn't. >> you think you advised me? you actually told me to fold it in. >> you -- and you refused to leave. the chief of staff said, you're fired, and you -- >> let me say this. if anybody had done to me what i did to the chief of staff then, i would have fired them. i said to mac, when he said you're fired, i said that i'm -- there's only one person in this building -- i don't know where i got the gumption to say what i said, which is, there's only one person who can fire me and it's the president of the united states. and i would have, as the chief of staff, i would have fired somebody who said that. and then bill clinton said, okay, i'm going to give you special projects. i did the assault weapon ban, the brady bill, nafta for president clinton and worked my

way up to being senior adviser. i mean, you, other people, bill daly all said come home, forget about it, it's over, and i said, no. this is what i wanted to do in my life and i'm not just going to walk out like that. and failing, i say this in commencement, because i believe this, failing is going to be where you learn the most of what you got to do to make the changes you need to be successful. >> but i don't know anybody who hates it more than you. >> failing? i don't know. i got two brothers that equally hate failing. do you know anybody that likes failing? >> no, but you're allergic to a way -- >> is this session covered by blue cross blue shield. >> i've got $150. there will be a bill. i remember calling you at the end of the 2008 campaign on instructions. >> i remember not trying to take your phone call. i was happy. >> right. right. because you knew i was calling you. you were in the house. you were on a track, perhaps, to become speaker some day, but president obama, president-elect obama, actually senator obama when he asked me to call you,

said call rahm because i want him to be the chief of staff, and you remember our conversation? >> i don't remember it as a conversation. >> no, it wasn't a conversation. and you used words that we probably can't use here. you really didn't want that job. >> i didn't. i'm honored. here's the thing, david. >> that's what you said. don't have him call because i'll have to say yes. >> and i don't want to say yes and i knew because of grandpa, you only get to say yes or yes, sir to the president of the united states. i -- two things. one, my career, where i wanted to be, what i wanted to do was on a trajectory and i worked very hard as the chairman of the dnc caucus chair, amy and i and the kids had a life that balanced what i was interested in without any way adversely affecting zachariah, ilana, and leia. we found a balance and a way to

have our home, a jewish home, and our kids educated in chicago without my work in any way challenging that. >> and you had to throw that over. and not only that, you walked into an unholy mess. >> not only did i have to walk away from that, i had to leave my family behind. >> let me take you back to those first months, because what i remember -- >> must we? >> abject fear. you were very much in the hub of the financial discussions. how close were we to the collapse of the financial system and the second great depression? >> we were in a small "d" depression. what we had to do was both, obviously, get resources into the economy and then also restore confidence in both the government and the economy. and what -- and i take everybody back. one, we're -- because you are interviewing me just in the shadows of president bush laying

in estate, he had a deal with savings and loan industry. president obama had a deal with the entire financial sector. other presidents had a deal with chrysler. this president had a deal with the entire auto industry. other presidents had a short-term 11-month recession. he had to deal with the greatest recession that was now bordering for a period of time on a depression. any one of those elements would have defined a presidency. he had to deal with all of it simultaneously. if you really look back at the last 15 years, the policies that were put in place were good policies, horrible politics, and a lot of that politics, we're still rumbling through our system today because the people at the very top and the people at the very bottom, the middle class, are getting taken care of. >> you were concerned about that. >> that's why, david, you remember this. i said, after both the stimulus bill and financial lifeline, both of those $800 billion. we should do old testament

justice. people needed the sense that the people that were getting bailed out and access to their wallet needed to be held accountable and it cost no money. and it would have been bipartisan. and a lot of the things would have gotten done politically to put a band-aid over something that was bleeding and our political system. we never brought a banker to trial. the financial reform looked like, at the end of the day, banks won. and at the end of the day, the middle -- we're in the middle of a middle class revolt because they felt like the guys at the top who got taken care of and the bottom never got held accountable. >> compare the two presidents you worked for, clinton and obama. i mean, they're vastly different people. >> how much time do we have? they're totally different and very similar. they're both very competitive. on the similarity. they show it in different ways. one is a person from a place called hope. one wrote about the audacity of hope. both ran as outsiders. both challenged the system as

is. neither one was supposed to be our nominee and neither one was supposed to make it to the presidency and neither one was supposed to get reelected. >> but as people to work for and the people you knew. >> i have a picture in my office. i have a number of pictures, but there's two or three of president clinton and two or three of president obama and i tell the story of their styles. the first -- i have a picture of the first meeting with president obama, the first time. he's sitting at his oval office, the desk is clean, the fire is going, and we're talking. there's nothing on the desk. it's his first day. i have a picture three years later. there's nothing on the desk. i have pictures of president clinton at his desk right after we had done the assault weapon ban, and it looks like just -- kind of looks like your desk, david. >> we don't have to go there. >> chaos everywhere. they had different styles. and different areas, different ways of doing things. but they were both very competitive, very tenacious

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so, as you like to say, this is holy ground here in chicago. manny's. a deli on the near south side. used to be a jewish peddler district here on maxwell street.

>> maxwell, yeah. >> and i don't know, we've known each other, what, 35 years. >> this must be like 120th meal here. this is all of chicago and every neighborhood and every part of chicago is in this restaurant. you've got truck drivers and stock traders and everything in between. >> talk about chicago and what makes chicago, you know, there's the reputation about corruption and al capone and all that stuff. what makes chicago unique in terms of the people? >> there are 140 languages spoken in our public schools. people from every walk of life, every part of the city who have a kind of chicago swagger, they're down to earth, they're grounded, they got two feet well planted, and they're not scared to tell you what they think of you. both on the positive and right to your face what they think of the negative and that's not, you know, in d.c., new york, l.a. there's the subtleties. we don't have subtleties here in chicago. we have in your face. i don't think i would do

politics the way i do politics if it wasn't for the fact that i grew up in this city. when this is all done, if i walk around, i'll get people -- they'll tell me what is on their mind, whether i ask or not, and that's actually -- i don't say that -- that's refreshing. >> let me ask you about your own table growing up. you start talking about your family. your dad, he was from israel but he was born in palestine and your mom was a civil rights -- >> leader, yeah, here in chicago. >> these were pretty forceful people and i get a sense when i talk to you about your childhood that it was kind of a combination of a sitcom and "the hunger games." is that fair? >> more "hunger games". >> yeah. but i mean, you guys were -- you were expected to excel. >> we were expected to excel. you had to have known the news and current events to participate. you were not allowed to

participate if you hadn't read a paper. >> participate, like come to the table? >> yeah, you couldn't come to the table or you couldn't talk if you had not read the paper or listened to the news. and i would say, yes, excel. but there was one other thing was you were never bring shame to the family, which meant to fail. so, yes, you were expected to exceed, excel, make a -- your mark in life, but you could not bring shame to the family by having failed. >> that's a lot of pressure. >> you're telling me. i'm still dealing with this. yeah. >> i know. i know you are. >> no, i mean, and that -- but you know what? immigrants have a certain edge because of the sacrifice and struggle. you gave up things, you gave up where you knew, you gave up family, you gave up relationships. the known for the unknown. and the kids of immigrants, or at least ours, and i think i see it with a lot of frequency as mayor, you are not allowed to be

frivolous with that. so, we can joke about our families and it's worth joking about. we all talk about it. but sometimes i say i lost this finger at my -- >> hold your hand up there. >> i lost that at the dinner table. >> you were -- you would -- that is like an editing device for you because that finger fully engaged would have gotten you into more fights than even you got into over time. lost that in an accident at arby's, cutting meat. >> just like this. >> so your brother, zeke, is world class medical ethicist and oncologist. your brother, ari, is a -- is not just a hollywood agent. he was the model for "entourage." >> lloyd! snap out of it. did you call e? call him now. forget the offer. ask him to come immediately and tell him that i used the word, please. >> two things. one is, when there was the west wing show, and "entourage" on,

one character being based on me -- >> the josh lyman character. >>let get the imf loans, listen to what i have to say about gideon and please listen to me. >> i used to say to zeke, what have you done for the family? you haven't done anything. you've embarrassed the family. how come there's nothing about you? >> you mentioned "the west wing" character. you were a character on "saturday night live." >> what i should have called you are babies, stupid babies that can't keep their mouths shut. >> it was like the profane, cutthroat guy. that's the rahm emanuel. >> that's the public rahm. you know there's another rahm. >> i do. but they don't. you know? i think there's this sense that you -- that if there's a wall, you'll run through it, but i know you as someone who tries to find ways to navigate around the wall. >> well, i think there's -- some of it's real and some of it's

affected. you have one gear. and when i'm -- what i should probably say, pointing, to be successful in politics, or, like, look, as a mayor, i've never lost a vote in city council. you can't have -- >> but who's counting? >> a middle child. you can't do that if you go seven and a half years in one gear. on the other hand, if people are scared, to quote mac i can't -- >> who is the best politicians that you have ever known? >> ever? savor card.apital one earn 4% cash back on dining and 4% on entertainment.

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which plug in to extend the wifi even farther, past anything that stands in its way. ...well almost anything. leave no room behind with xfi pods. simple. easy. awesome. click or visit a retail store today. when i was in the political business, i would bring candidates here. you have been around politics for all your adult life, who is the best politician that you have ever known. >> ever? bill clinton. >> why? >> he is multilingual.

he can go into a board room and be in a baptist church in the afternoon and not miss a beat. >> i know how close you are, in his last campaign, he was nowhere to be seen. people did not bring him there. how did you process that? >> well, you know, i haven't talked to him, so it's not fair, but i know him, i would say problem has his own pain. one, he is a great politician, he loves, i hate using this word, but he loves the sport of politics. he is competitive. >> in 2012, he was the most valuable campaigner. >> to be on the sidelines has his own dimension. him regularly. know, i talk to - i still consider him, i consider him a friend and a real intellectual and political

resource. i don't think you can make it to the oval office without being a good politician. and i have my disagreements and violent disagreements with this president, he was a better politician than hillary was. >> one of the things that he has had to deal with from the beginning is the special counsel, investigations, in the last -- and you have lived through that in the clinton white house, how debilitating is that? >> they're doing something we didn't do. we actually cordoned it off and isolated. this president has decided to immerse himself in the scandal and not do a degree of separation. and i think they are making a big mistake. >> i was in the white house when you were chief of staff, i know how you did the job.

and i look at this white house as you probably do, and i wonder how is that working. >> i don't think it is working. how can you come out of a meeting with china and have different interpretations i am not talking about what the chinese said, i am tall about our guy. and as it is said, the fish rots from the head down. >> what are you looking for? >> there is nothing like a process. actually, the process is the big predictor and it will produce. i actually think one of the things we had last time is we shortchanged the process of candidates. on the mayoral field, you have bloomberg and garcetti. >> mayors. >> yeah. and all of a sudden mayors are emerging as presidential contenders. >> do you ever think about it? >> no. i have done eight years in the

oval, i have been honored. and i actually think, i think this is an era of cities. i am not interested. >> so you actually have two mayors. >> three or four governors, three, four, five, senators. >> maybe as many as nine. >> personally, i don't want to own washington as a party. i want donald trump to own, all of washington. have him own the corruption, the dysfunction. >> we travel a lot, in this city, you come in here today, you are greeted by people, high-fives, fist pumps and sometimes open-handed salutes. >> as i always say, being mayor, you either get thumbs up or the one finger wave. >> you love it. >> love it.

it's the greatest. >> and how are you going to adjust to life without it? >> it is going to be hard. it's going to be hard. part of life is when you have run your race and you have done the best and know when to leave. this is going to be hard. i love the people, i love the city, it is time for a transition and i will do it. >> no more races, no more campaigns? >> probably not. probably not. >> job in washington if there were a democratic president? >> if they ask. i might be interested if it is the right one. >> you to have be the larger than life to be the mayor of chicago. and you have done that. >> the good news is that -- it is a great ride.

i am a son of an immigrant that has been in the white house twice. and congress. i am the luckiest guy in the world. >> thanks, man. for more of this conversation, you can download the podcast. >> they are protecting the planet. saying no to plastic bags. sharing a love of baseball with children halfway across the world. and giving kids of all ages a chance to celebrate their birthday. already, these young people are making a difference and a reminder that you are never too young to change the world. tonight we are honored to share their stories. this is "young wonders." a lot of ups a